SYSTEM:
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Sungold:
Good morning
Sungold:
Another school shooting.....fatality...seems to be an epidemic. Roseburg has to face the arrival of Mr. Obama today, I wonder if he will enjoy a warm reception from the community?
SYSTEM:
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Citizen:
but he slept in the same room as Dougie...so he must have been a great pic for speaker
Sungold:
Interesting name....catchy!
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phillip-smith:
Hey Adam and Felicia god morning from Seth
phillip-smith:
that would be good morning
phillip-smith:
where is Joel
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RallySally:
They don't have to be voters.
RallySally:
Anyone who lives in the county (a resident) can sign.
RallySally:
We did a presentation in Anderson last Tuesday
phillip-smith:
but are all your signitures voters?
RallySally:
Colusa county is in because the city of Williams and Colusa signed Declarations unanamously.
RallySally:
Phillip-No.
phillip-smith:
is there an age limit on the signitures?
RallySally:
The Constitution states that "it is the right of the people to redress their greivances." It doesn't say voters.
RallySally:
It doesn't give an age either.
Citizen:
its amazing how little votes got some of these 'people' in office... look at the 2014 election results...4ooo to 8ooo votes have been enough for supervisors and city council
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RallySally:
12. Plumas is in the process!
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RallySally:
Shasta will be #13-as in the 13 colonies!
Sungold:
Check out the TED X radio hour on JPR, Sunday 10 to 11. Great program
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RallySally:
California has the WORST representation ratio in all of the 50 states. 3X worse than the next worse state of Texas.
Todd:
What about Plumas County?
RallySally:
Brown signed the suicide bill.
phillip-smith:
What will be the tax rate in the state of Jefferson?
Craig:
No, Sally. It is worse than that. Each rep in Texas' lower house represents 200K. Calif is closer to 1M
RallySally:
Plumas county is "in the process"....the Board voted to put it on the 2016 ballot.
RallySally:
Phillip-lower than California's!
Craig:
SoJ has more work to do in Plumas now.
Craig:
Stream is bad for me.
RallySally:
We have 3 Assemblymen and 3 Senators in 20 counties. The rest of the state has 114.
phillip-smith:
Income or property or sales? any Idea what an estimated budget would be to maintain roads and public services.
Craig:
PS, you familiar with Wyoming?
RallySally:
To start with, we will keep all of the tax dollars here instead of sending it down to the black hole of Sacramento.
phillip-smith:
every state has a "black hole". I am unsure what the question is about Wyoming
RallySally:
Plus, we won't have to fund 570 different agencies, all of those employees benefits and pensions.
Craig:
The population of Wyoming is about 581K people. It is largely a rural, sparsely populated state, yet they have police, fire, highways, schools and a university.
RallySally:
We will be a smaller rural state, about the size of New Mexico, with a better GDP and the opportunity to again utilize our own resources.
Craig:
How do they pay for all that? How are they not dependent upon a metropolitan tax base to pay for everything?
phillip-smith:
so police officers will not have paychecks or retirements?
Craig:
Im pretty sure Wyoming state and local police get paid.
SYSTEM:
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RallySally:
Like I said, we will KEEP the tax dollars HERE-Shasta county gets 12 cents of everydollar sent back here. What if we kept the dollar and gave the governemtn 12 cents?
RallySally:
Plus, with a business friendly climate, why wouldn't the businesses that are moving out of California come to Jefferson instead?
Craig:
Problem is, people keep coming to the debate assuming that SoJ just wants to divide the state and keep the same big expensive government that California has, and do not consider that a smaller gov will be less costly to run.
RallySally:
We are NOT poor here. We have been impoverished by the laws, rules, regulations, taxes, fines, fees etc.
RallySally:
Exactly, Craig!
Craig:
CalFire is a pretty good example. It has a billion dollar budget to fight fires and yet - hides millions of dollars and does nothing about prevention.
Craig:
the very fees rural people are compelled to pay are being hoarded as a slush fund
RallySally:
No big salaries or pensions. They will go home and go back to their own businesses.
RallySally:
Go back to Citizen Representation, not career politicians.
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Craig:
Sally we will always have career politicians if we tolerate them.
Shastaminded:
I don't see how it can possibly work. How will we build prisons, universities, all the other assets we need with no tax base?
Craig:
Shastaminded - how much tax base do you think it takes to provide all those things?
phillip-smith:
but schools do get federal monies to survive. how would the state of jefferson educate
RallySally:
Shastamined-you missed the conversation a few minutes ago. We will keep all of the money here, not send 88 cents of every dollar to the black hole of sacramento.
Shastaminded:
Much of the land is US Forest Service and they do not pay taxes.
phillip-smith:
carl, how much monies are estimated to be needed to fund the state of Jefferson
Shastaminded:
What about social services?
Craig:
Shastaminded - how many people are necessary to provide an adequate tax base?
Citizen:
he needs to start qualifying his opinion as his opinion... don't TELL us what we are going to have but introduce it as an alternative that will need to be accepted by the new state citizens
RallySally:
Our state will have about 1.7 million people. Larger population than New Mexico.
Shastaminded:
1.2 million people who earn an average of $50,000? How will that generate enough?
RallySally:
Shastaminded-incomes will grow as businesses flee from Sacramento to Jefferson instead of Texas.
Craig:
Shastaminded... Wyoming has 581K in the entire state. The MEDIAN income in Wyoming is $56K . They have fewer people that SoJ, and likely less income. How come they can run an entire state and we cannot?
Citizen:
keep in mind..if they announce tomorrow that this is going to be accpeted...it would be 18 months to 2 years to prepare and our growth and money rolling in, in the form of corporations would be amazing...and very difficult to control
Shastaminded:
Not saying we cannot - just asking questions.
RallySally:
Exactly-how do the other 49 states get along without Californias money?
Shastaminded:
And who will be writing the brand new civil, criminal and income tax codes?
RallySally:
There will be a Constitutional Convention to decide all of these things.
Craig:
The new state legislature would both write the state constitution and develop the civil code
Shastaminded:
Great so we get a whole new group of special interests and lobbyists at a convention.
Craig:
What kind of special interests are you concerned about Shastaminded?
Shastaminded:
We already have a ton of homeless that do not pay taxes or pay for their social services. How shall we develop a delivery system of services for mental health, housing, etc.
RallySally:
With a part-time legislature, lobbyists would no longer find it profitable. Harder to bribe people who will only be there 2 terms.
Citizen:
Mark makes it sound like he or a small group has already decided how all of this is going to work...he needs to refrain from making it sound that way and instead help those on the fence that representation and having a voice to all individuals willing to make an effort could be what we are known for
Shastaminded:
Does Wyoming have no lobbyists?
Craig:
LOL...
RallySally:
Compared with California?
RallySally:
Have you walked the halls in Sacramento lately?
Citizen:
we could have our own laws on what money candidates could accept if any... whether lonnbbyists are an accepted norm ...etc..
Craig:
I think with representation in Wyoming, the lobbyists there would have to compete with the constituency for time.
Craig:
instead of vice versa
phillip-smith:
The answers he is giving about the actual dolloar amounts are very vauge
SYSTEM:
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RallySally:
We have a financial page at SOJ51.net
Shastaminded:
Wyoming has plenty of them. They are unavoidable where there are laws and money involved.
Shastaminded:
http://classic.followthemoney.org//database/StateGlance/state_lobbyists.phtml?s=WY&y=2012
Craig:
Can you be specific about how much money California will need to get out of debt and how much it will need to cut spending to balance their budget?
Shastaminded:
I would not want to jump from the devil I know to the devil I don't know if there is not a sufficient plan for finance, crime, health, education everything we need to form a new state.
RallySally:
The LAO (Legislative Analayist Office) had to do a study for the 6 states initiative that showed that Jefferson would be viable with fewer counties than what we have.
Shastaminded:
Large population centres getting more representation is exactly what we have now with the large coastal cities. How is that better under the SOJ plan?
RallySally:
www.lao.ca.gov/ballot/2013/130771.aspx
Craig:
Well. I need to go to work and help pay for highway construction in LA, a stretch of the High Speed Rail that I will never ride, and a janitor to clean the gender neutral bathrooms in our public schools.
RallySally:
LOL! Have a good day, Craig!
phillip-smith:
craig, I am not the one educating the mass public on the idea of a new state. I will say that I believe he should be able to estimate how much monies will be needed and be able to give more specific examples.
Shastaminded:
Every other state DOES NOT provide for mental health. That is the problem. How will SOJ be different?.
RallySally:
Check out the LAO report, phillip.
Shastaminded:
I am not convinced by the guest that he has an actual plan - just talk.
Shastaminded:
With regard to mental health and social services.
RallySally:
He is not King. There will be many expert minds involved when we have the Constitutional Convention.
Shastaminded:
Crime is an epidemic infection in every rural county. There are not enough law enforcement in ANY county.
RallySally:
Our founding Fathers, certainly didn't have it all fiogured out before the shopt that was heard around the world was fired either.
Shastaminded:
Love the thought of liberty. Not willing to replicate California's problems if the financial issues aren't considered fully before jumping in.
Citizen:
very nice adjustment... makes me much more comfortable hearing people qualify this is just their opinion and decison will belong to us all... nice job Mark...thank you
RallySally:
Why would we replicate California when it is what we a re trying to get away from?
Shastaminded:
I vote for NO income tax in SOJ. Cover it with property tax.
RallySally:
That is a possibility!