SYSTEM:
Please welcome GreatStart who just joined the chat.
SYSTEM:
Please welcome ProducerBadBob who just joined the chat.
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Carl who just joined the chat.
Carl:
Good morning
ProducerBadBob:
Mr Starman leaves one step ahead of the angry mob
GreatStart:
about 168k
GreatStart:
but he leaves us strong position as a city and very proud of his efforts....lol
GreatStart:
and don't forget the margin clause in his contract...that automatically raises him when the lower managers get a raise
GreatStart:
2% at 60...and he has 28 years being counted
GreatStart:
it will be around 168k
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Ebay_shopper who just joined the chat.
Ebay_shopper:
I recommend the book "Plunder" by Steven Greenhut. City, county and state government work this way across the state. City staff gets away with it because California cities work that way.
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Mike who just joined the chat.
Ebay_shopper:
In Starman's defense, Chico, the number one competitor, will be going bankrupt before Redding. Also Eureka, number two competitor.
GreatStart:
but do you have to successful in your job...uhh...no
GreatStart:
BULLETS !!!
Mike:
Carl, it would benefit everyone if when you state numbers, wait until you have the facts.
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Ebay_shopper who just joined the chat.
Ebay_shopper:
Redding is just another CA city. Shasta is just another CA county. Starman and Lees are just like their counterparts across the state. City and County staff get away with it because the issues are statewide.
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Sungold who just joined the chat.
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Mike who just joined the chat.
ProducerBadBob:
well, Mike. We read the numbers right off of Transparent Califonia. Do you have better numbers?
Carl:
Which facts are wrong, Mike? He is 52 and leaving when the city needs his expertise. I don't cae how much he makes. I want him to help with the solution. He's been here for the debacle leading to it.
GreatStart:
it's time we change the way we evaluate and offer pay...and it's time we have the County/City discussion about overlapping services...our situation is unique in that Redding citizens do pay most of the bills and we should be having redundant services
GreatStart:
shouldn't
Sungold:
Doni Greenburg has a story about his retirement. Read the reviews at A News Cafe. They must be talking about a different person or I am living on a different planet
ProducerBadBob:
Reality Distortion Field, Sunny?
Sungold:
I knew he was setting himself up to retire with the last pay raise.
GreatStart:
for many of us who know Kurt personally, he is a nice guy...but that doesn't mean he gets a pass on his decisions and his leadership in the city
ProducerBadBob:
Kurt's a great guy and this is not against him. He is operating under the system as defined by the Elected Ones.
Sungold:
City Employees manual says retirement is at age 55, maybe that does not apply to City Manager?
Mike:
Bob, we knew what his "numbers" are, we could figure it out. Starman knows what he's walking away with. I'm sure someone in "human resources know.
Sungold:
I have heard much negative comment about him on this chat room, and I know there is a recall effort being started
ProducerBadBob:
The salaries are a matter of public record, not sure what the dispute might be, Mike.
Sungold:
So not everyone thinks he has been a good leader.
GreatStart:
its funny that no one is talking about one of the most significant points of this county strike... 401a vs pension
ProducerBadBob:
Maybe we need a spokesperson from CPEU to come talk?
Sungold:
I've always had great service from the City too.
GreatStart:
third party CPA found some hidden money...close to a million... wonder if they are going to explain where it was and why
Mike:
Bob, no dispute. Need to state facts; unless it's a stated opinion.
GreatStart:
good idea Bob
Sungold:
I don't understand a county employee being paid below minimum wage.
GreatStart:
Mike...CALPERS is not hard...he is 2%at 60... take his highest x 2% x 28...comes close
Mike:
GS: He's reriring at 52, not 60. What's his multipler?
Mike:
retiring
SYSTEM:
Please welcome drmaria who just joined the chat.
GreatStart:
did you see the march was 'announced' in the paper at 1234 a.m. the day of the event ? lol...guess they didn't want anyone attending
ProducerBadBob:
Yep that's 163K in round numbers, GS
GreatStart:
Mike, he will surely claim the 5 year retirement credit years..and depending on the classification and provisions ...the adjustment will be minimal
GreatStart:
and don't forget the benefits
GreatStart:
County strike...this isn't about the 26 dollar fee... 401a vs pension and the 3% per year for 3 years...they should have accepted the offer last year
GreatStart:
obama
GreatStart:
and the verbiage matches Clinton from his 1995 state of the union...which received a standing ovation from BOTH sides of the aisle
GreatStart:
no...they don't want to go back...they want the same gravy train that the illegals get here...
Ebay_shopper:
As shown by Major Hassan, the San Bernardino shooters and the Somalis, the real danger is second generation. Often the first generation Sunni are grateful to be in the U.S, The children are radicalized thanks to organizations funded by OPEC countries. Major Hassan, etc are in perfect position to
Mike:
GS: I don't know wnat "5 year credit is", but the multipler at 52 will be big difference than 2% @ 60. My wife retired 2 years short of her 2% multipler and that ment a 14% loss.
GreatStart:
thats why we should have stretched Major Hassan between two horses and offered it on payperview
drmaria:
great now I want toast
GreatStart:
5 year credit is offered to almost all.. it requires a buy back and many executive level managers pay for it with their 457 as a nontaxable event
Ebay_shopper:
The Shi'ia, Yazzidi, Druze, Christian, Jewish, etc refugees from Syria don't join ISIS and their kids don',t.
Sungold:
Hey Carl, get a second TV and set it up so you can watch another channel! Makes life easier.
GreatStart:
that 5 year credit would give him 33 years as a factor...which puts him right back to where we discussed
GreatStart:
not counting benefits
Mike:
That doesn't change his age/multipler
GreatStart:
city council needs a different mindset ? or we just need a different city council ?
GreatStart:
no it doesn't change the offset from retiring early but it gives him more years to make up that difference
Mike:
Have to bring in an "outsider".
GreatStart:
have figured these out many times and worked with calpers on behalf of retirees... lots to think about...many would love to be in that system and understand why many don't want to give it up....just no longer sustainable
GreatStart:
we need to circle the wagons and protect the already servicing pensions(those already retired) and those that we are already obligated to service...no more after that...just unsustainable
Sungold:
When I retired I paid into extra money into CalPers to pay for the first three years I was working off a grant and part time. I put in $1500 to bring me up to full time during that time
GreatStart:
they have many programs like that depending on the classification of your service and the contract with the individual municipality
Sungold:
Well, that did not make much sense, but maybe you will get what I meant!
GreatStart:
absolutely
GreatStart:
Sun, some refer to it as a 'buy-up' where you are required/offered to make up the difference had you been a fulltime during that period at your rate of pay during that 3 years
GreatStart:
she has like 4 books on the Jefferson historical impacts nice lady
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Pete who just joined the chat.
SYSTEM:
Pete just signed off.
drmaria:
Chris Darker thanks for the explanation on Facebook and here.
GreatStart:
safe space
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Red who just joined the chat.
ProducerBadBob:
hey Red
Sungold:
Well, I was not offered a buy-up, I found out about it and then asked. Then I crunched the numbers and found out it would be to my advantage.
Red:
Howdy
Red:
Where are the Red light ticket funds going now that we are not building a Court House?
Red:
Do we get a refund?
Sungold:
Chris is a former RPD officer, and was there when I was. He eventually when into the Union world and has been there a long time
Sungold:
went
ProducerBadBob:
Well the Redflex Cameras are mostly in the City. So not sure that reps from the UPEC would be the ones to ask.
Red:
I was saying we could pay the UPEC with those funds
ProducerBadBob:
County employees but I'm pretty sure the contract is with CoR
Red:
Those funds went to the county and is distributed to the city and a bunch is held in trust by county
ProducerBadBob:
you can ask, not sure these guys are qualified to answer. Wanna call?
SYSTEM:
Please welcome Ebay_shopper who just joined the chat.
GreatStart:
silver plan
Red:
Fees collected by county, distributed by county, CoR gets what county gives them
GreatStart:
so is the pension on the table ? 401a ?
Ebay_shopper:
He assumes no one ever gets promoted or that the pay scale is the same for long term employees. The total cost, including pay, benefits and pensions over a career at least 20 years far exceeds private sector.
Red:
Total to get these guys their demands what is the bottom line price tag a year?
Ebay_shopper:
The city and county workforce are very top heavy, and employees with at least 20 years are near the top of the pay scale.
GreatStart:
so is the pension on the table ? 401a ?
Mike:
Did I hear him say, that county workers are paying PERS and S.S.?
Ebay_shopper:
Compare similar occupations. A clerk for the county costs a lot. A clerk for Mercy Hospital costs much less over a 20 year career. The private sector does not have these layers of management the county and city do.
GreatStart:
but no longer offer a pension ?
GreatStart:
Ebay...agree
Ebay_shopper:
What matters is the total cost over a 20+ year career. hE'S cherry picking by quoting numbers for entry level
GreatStart:
but no longer offer a pension ?
Ebay_shopper:
The county employees are much less likely to be laid off. It is practically impossible to be fired as long as you show up for work every day. That includes people who get drunk on lunch hour.
Red:
Redding, California,sales tax rate is 7.50%. Income tax is 8.00%. The income per capita is $23,893, which includes all adults and children. The median household income is $43,773.
Ebay_shopper:
TheCPA report did not compare the total cost of employes over a 20 year career.
Red:
If you remove government salaries from that equation that median income drops drastically
Ebay_shopper:
Compare the total compensation cost including pay, benefits and pensions for similar employees. A clerk in the private sector costs less over a 20 year career than the city or county employee.
Sungold:
I don't think you can pay both PERS and SS.
Red:
Good song
ProducerBadBob:
which one, the Joan Jett?
Sungold:
How much rain?
ProducerBadBob:
Or the Journey?
ProducerBadBob:
total looks like 3-4 inches between Wed-Fri
ProducerBadBob:
Back in the 1980s was totally in love with JJ
GreatStart:
will the pension still be offered ? in addition to a 401a ?
Red:
Stevie Nicks!
Red:
Have a good day all
ProducerBadBob:
Out of time today, Red, remind me next time.
Red:
Yes sir
Red:
Have a good one
ProducerBadBob:
and you
GreatStart:
so the 401a has nothing to do with the pension
GreatStart:
so no relief from pension obligations...for county taxpayers...nothing in this for us or our coming problems
GreatStart:
more more more...tax payer...less less less
ProducerBadBob:
The courts have ruled that the existing obligation must be honored. Are you saying that new hires should be told they will get no pension whatsoever?
GreatStart:
thanx Carl
GreatStart:
they should be moving to a defined contribution plan, something sustainable